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TOPIC: 505 that sails like a skiff

505 that sails like a skiff 7 years 10 months ago #242

I sailed FD's for years, then bought a 505 and raced/sailed it a few times then got a Tornado, then starting building my own cats/tris and dinghys always looking for the perfect boat. What is really impressive about the 505 is the way it sails in a heavy seas -- responsive and fun when other boats are buried in waves. It is a great boat than can be docked, moved on land easily, rigged quickly, etc.... one of the best ever. I am thinking about getting a 505 again, but modifying it so that it is faster (a lot faster). I'd like to make it go like a skiff but sail like a 505. (I know to many this is blasphemy.) Have any of you experimented with 505's like this? Is the class thinking about making any radical changes? What changes would make the 505 beat a 49er?
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Re:505 that sails like a skiff 7 years 9 months ago #250

  • bigreen505
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I had a very lengthy chat about this with Frank Bethwaite a few years ago. He has never been on a modern 505, but has a pretty good handle on boat design. In his view, a 505 is a 505. Enjoy it. If you don't like it, sail something else. It took a long time for me to get there, but I think he is right. There are a lot of changes that could make it a better 505 like a more modern rig and a self-draining cockpit, but aside from a new hull shape, not much will make it a lot faster. A 49er hull moves through the water very differently from a 505. I would be very interested to see what the 49er would look like in 2009 if it were not an Olympic boat. The 505 is a great boat, and with the attitude of the class toward advances, it will always be a great boat. A skiff it is not, and will never be. It took me a long time to get around to that.

I have not had the opportunity to get on a Swift Solo, though I plan to remedy that this summer, but I have heard people say it is like a perfect blend of a 505 and a 49er with the smooth feel of the 505 upwind and raw speed of the 49er downwind.

I suppose the easiest way to make a 505 feel like a skiff is to stop sailing below 30 kt. :woohoo:
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by bigreen505.
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Re:505 that sails like a skiff 7 years 9 months ago #251

  • mauwii
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In the 70's the french experimented considerably with the Parker 505's, introducing twin trapeze on a aluminium A frame, I have some historical pictures of this. It transformed the boat - however, the class rules restricted any further progress from this point onwards. I do agree the 505 is in a class of its own in big weather and waves and with the twin trapeze the performance I hear was incredible.
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Re:505 that sails like a skiff 7 years 9 months ago #252

  • cmradu
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mauwii, would you post or link to 1-2 of the twin trapeze pics?
Thanks.
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Re: 505 that sails like a skiff 5 years 8 months ago #394

This is one of the reasons I'm on the fence about owning a 505. The 505 seems to be the highest performance dinghy for the ocean, but it could be so much better. Double trapezes are a must. Nobody wants to hike, particularly when that means getting fire hosed in the face all day long. Helming from the trapeze is much faster, visibility is better and is just way more fun. A raised floor in the boat would allow both skipper and crew to walk across the boat in maneuvers. Raise the boom a foot. Carbon mast to accommodate the square top main. Dagger board instead of centerboard, no more gasket maintenance. Asymmetrical spinnakers, ditch the poles. Keep the hull design the same and you've got an ocean going weapon that no multihull or skiff could touch in the ocean. Maybe it'll get there someday. The fact that the class has not changed too quickly has kept it the most competitive fleet in my area. The 505 is a great boat however you look at it.
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Re: 505 that sails like a skiff 5 years 8 months ago #396

  • dwdowning
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A basic question that would need to be answered is, "Do you want to make make all existing 505s obsolete with an upgrade?" If the answer is no then only rig changes and a double trapeze could be made. You could not effectively put in a daggerboard or self draining cockpit. With modern materials one could make a lighter boat, but that would also obsolete 9000 existing boats.

A new rig and double wires would probably make the boat faster, but still not likely as fast as a 49er of I14 in most conditions because of the wider beam. That is the design trade-off, a 505 may be slower upwind, but will never pitch-pole downwind like I have seen 49ers and I14s do many times.
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